Ark. Dems' party chairman killed in shooting

Geez, what difference does it make if he hates liberals or conservatives or environmentalists or whatever?!?!?!? An innocent man was shot by a wacko. Thoughts and prayers to the victim, his family and his friends. BTW, the church was not in Nashville, it was in Knoxville.

Dont overthink it Athena. I believe he was a former employee who lost his job and blamed the owner for his subsequent problems. Nothing else!

George

That comment is disgusting.

Oh please... please explain this comment "I'm dreading the idea that this gunman might turn out to be everything people have assumed he is, and broken-hearted about what that would say about the state of political discourse in this country."
Please tell me how that is not a political slant, and how that does not pander to the unfounded accusations that others have made in this discussion.
I am not trying to impress you. And I doubt you are Republican. I won't comment on the "intelligent" adjective, as I have no evidence to prove or disprove your intelligence.

"@Red Hawk -- I doubt you have any experience in "overthinking," so spare me the advice. "

Yeah, you sound like a REAL professional Athena. You attack anyone who offers an opinion different from your own, or who analyzes your opinions in a way you may not have intended.
You sound like a Democrat to me.

Yep... and you fear for a negative political discourse. Yet, just like Obama, you fall right into it.

If I could click the little check for you 5 times re above comment I would.

I know its slightly off topic--but I want to say thanks for having a civil political discourse. As it should be.

Aww, how sweet.

Excuse me for misunderstanding an msn.com writer's statements... but your statements were ambiguous, and knowing your organization's typical slant, and the comments from many other users here, I don't think I was too far out of line in my interpretation of your comments. Not to mention your ridiculous personal attacks and unnecessary and demeaning comments to myself and Red Hawk. People keep mentioning the CoH, and yet you seem to like finding loopholes in that.

And even in your explanation of your remarks you just cannot but feel like you are on some pillar above the rest of us "heathens," who are not "prestigious" writers for a left-leaning and pretentious website.

I have very little respect for msn.com writers as a whole, but after reading some of your other arguments, if I could retract my earlier comments, I would.

And I must thank you for releasing me from any obligation to you, master. So glad I don't need to be of service to you.

Judging from Athena's attitudes toward people who disagree with her, I wouldn't be surprised if she got her Newsvine friends to collapse alot of these posts. And she even said to you, cartoonmohammed, " I'll leave your rotten comment up there for everyone to read, because I believe in free and open discourse." She'll leave your "rotten" comment up there for everyone to read? If she doesn't have any control over it, why would she say something like that?

Considering how everyone who disagrees with her gets a standard "you're an idiot" response, I would bet she has some personal issues.
I'm sure she'll get this comment collapsed or deleted too, but I just don't care. She's a bully.

Quick enough for you?

I expect this sort of thing to happen more frequently. This is one possible reason that almost all of the states have passed "shall issue" concealed carry laws.

Every politican who was shot in the 60's had a major common denominator they were direct opponents to Richard Nixon.John Kennendy made Nixon appear foolish in their presiendental debates;he was shot dead soon thereafter.Robert Kennendy was in the lead of the Democrat primary the summer of 1968 after his death a few weeks later the new leader was George Wallace and was shot thankfully he survived but never quite as vocal as before;finally the pesky to Nixon only Dr.Martin Luther King was stirring up the negroes to vote democrat and alas he was to meet the fate of the aforementioned the last three of these assaults occurred in the span of just a few weeks.We never did know what Nixon erased in the 18 minute gap from his Wategate tapes it must have been bad stuff because what he let out was bad enough to cost him the whitehouse.BTW I typed this post in much less time than 18 minutes.

FG.
Interesting thought, we're getting off topic but I have to say the bigger albatross around JFK's neck and definitely a bigger nemisis to Bobby was LBJ. He was AT LEAST as crooked as Nixon, he just didn't get caught unless you count Viet Nam causing him to withdraw from the race in 68.

I don't know if he didn't get caught or if no one cared enough to say anything.

>> There should be responsibility in broadcasting. Not all Americans are of sound mind. To hear some of these conservative talking heads, Democrats are out to destroy America, never mind what has happened to America under 7.5 years of Republican rule <<

I'm hearing all this talk of the shooter's motive being unknown, please...try ignorant hate filled insanity to begin with. People lose their jobs on the daily, taking deadly aim against someone because you lost a job is not an act of sanity. I have to believe broadcasts of hate rhetoric is nothing more than lowbrow attempts at subliminal messaging. It's sad to see the number of knuckle dragging, sloping foreheads still inhabiting this country like the poster Glorious who suggests the gunman should've saved his ammo for Obama...racist moron does not begin to describe the mentality, what little of it there is....newscasters promoting hate mentality should be subjected to the violence they incite.

No question Glorious comments were way over the top and it has since been rightfully deleted. There is no place for comments like that in a civilized discussion or society.

Perhaps most broadcasts are subliminal, however the skit on Air America which used the sound effects of 4 gunshots being fired at President Bush was actually quite overt.

People are still responsible for their own decisions and actions.

I may not agree with the Limbaughs and the Coulters, but I defend to the death their right to have their say.

Let's not let fear gag the media.

Gag the media? It's happening now. We no longer have a truth in reporting mandate. Things are way right -- just look at the 80 percent of information being negative about Obama. This is for real, and conservatives living in reality must admit that much!

I suspect this crazed lunatic is just that and nothing else -- or perhaps some of the blood of this Democrat is on the hands of the Hannitys and Limbaughs and Fox Newses. Similar threat faced Clinton in NH. I mean, sure the Democrats have "Air America" -- but that's nothing compared to Hannity, Limbaugh and an entire NEWS NETWORK: Fox. We cannot continue to brainwash people in this country without some negative outcome.

That's right blame everyone who doesn't share your political view Including the media. We don't even know all the facts yet. Don't gag my views or others to conform to your tunnel vision of life.

Who said it was a conservative? This guy was a Hillary supporter not a liberal post Marxist Communist Obamamaniac. Therefore, his support of Hillary and continued support of her long after the party had decided for the people that Obama should be the chosen one may have riled one of Obama's wild eyed people ready to protect his Messiah from those who will be Hillary supporters and promise to make trouble for the big O (that is zero) at the D convention.

your ignorance and big government views kill me...

how dare anyone suggest it is any talk show host or news channels fault for this idiot, and therefore suggest they should be silenced.

Did any of you know that the Una-bomber had a book by Al Gore and wrote very similar passages from that book in his manifesto.

But you don't blame Gore for his actions...or do you. those of you who have done this should be ashamed and should offer an apology to this message board for your political soap boxing over a tragedy.

So Rush is responsible for this shooting ? Someone needs professional help.

Jon - the reason that 80% of the info on Obama is negative, despite the best efforts of a fawning media, is that there is very little to recommend him to America... You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Let's take away the right way of thinking and just have the left. Do you ever wonder why they call it leaning to the right. If you don't have the right, you're left with whats left. And that ain't much. Sad story though.

"Let's not let fear gag the media."

Too late, the left wing media is already doing their best to gag one of the few left that doesn't slant far in their direction, trying to pass laws that allow an entire media station to deliberately report based on left leaning opinion, while banning anything said that hints at agreements with the right. So now instead of having NO biased media but at least two sides to look at, they want to make it so if you actually rely on the media to provide news about individuals instead of just looking at events and watching videos of actual speeches from the individuals they're reporting on, you'll have everything slanted to not just a Democrat's point of view, but a Democrat who ignores anything positive done by the other side and deliberately "misinterprets" actions. They use old bogus stereotypes about oppression from the right (never mind that more rights are taken from the left) to instill fear in the population and fool people into believing anything they want you to hear.

Can we quit swinging the partisan pendulum and center ourselves on what HAPPENED again?

Ontime: sadly it is American politics. We've had 4 Presidents assassinated, along with Bobby Kennedy, and MLK, with attempts on Reagan and Ford. I'd think that a complete list of politically-associated violence in America would be quite long. It's just that we like to forget unpleasantness.

Yeah, and Keith Olberman is a calming, unbiased voice of reason. Both parties have been taken over by their extreme fringes. If you want an idea of the insanity, just read these few comments and multiply by a million or so. The brainwashing and narrow mindedness is mind boggling.

you are so right Canemah...but again we should not politicise this at all. I don't think the family of this victim is worried what the political leaning of the shooter was.

Yeah, with all our other constitutional rights that have gone down the drain in the last eight years...

I love Ron Paul but this year I can't throw away my vote. It's just too important. Maybe one day people will give a third party candidate a fighting chance. Won't that be a great day...

EinsteinHR and Red-374368,

I am in agreement with both of you. Sadly enough, the greatest victim of this shooting with be the Constitution of the United States, more specifically the 2nd Amendment. Two days ago, I responded to some guy posting that there should be another American Revolution against the U.S. government--I reminded him that without the 2nd Amendment, he would not be able to have his revolution because he would not be allowed to defend himself with anything more than a spit ball launcher. Ron Paul is a great defender of the Constitution---ALL OF THE CONSTITUTION! He is a no-nonsense, common sense person, but alas--he is not in a position to garner enough voters to be elected president. So much for wishful thinking.

Don't try to gag the talking heads; you can't kill an idea.
Let ideas be aired; if they don't float, they will sink.
Censorship implies that the government must protect its citizens from their own minds.

No, Red Hawk, if I had raise the shooter, there would have been no shooting and all else connected to this including this thread would be non-existent.

Well, Red Hawk, I'm not crazy, but I am a carrier. However, if you insist I go, based on your posts, you come with me--you most certainly qualify for a free jacket and a room next to mine.

"I can't throw away my vote on a third party candidate. This year is too important." Gee, aren't they all. Until a third party can go toe to toe with the two existing main parties, we'll continue to receive and deserve the crap we get. Neither candidate would make a pimple on a leaders ass, but they are what the parties say we should have. Guess they don't think we can think for ourselves. Maybe they're right.

Providence -- that's great rhetoric about idea killing, but when people are exposed to a "news agency" like Fox that's supposed to report the unbiased truth, and instead Fox reports in a biased manner (as they DO!) -- then people get the wrong idea of reality. It's not about idea killing -- it's about brainwashing. You can't have a biased evaluation of an idea when the contexts are false but are presented as truth.

We're just pawns in the everlasting battle for the hearts and minds of men, and with the stakes so high, it's obvious why we're being lied to and losing our rights.

All these complaints about Fox News when even including them 90% of the media talk show hosts self identify as Liberal D's. That is were you find bias--everywhere but Sean etc. If you notice, Fox actually supports their allegations with facts and documentation. That's what you don't like. The others just shout down any response that doesn't fit their post-Marx Socialist Commie beliefs.

All these complaints about Fox News when even including them 90% of the media talk show hosts self identify as Liberal D's. That is were you find bias--everywhere but Sean etc. If you notice, Fox actually supports their allegations with facts and documentation. That's what you don't like. The others just shout down any response that doesn't fit their post-Marx Socialist Commie beliefs.

Hooray! Finally a voice of reason! Listen, no demagogue, pundit, or news reporter should be blamed for this or any other shooting unless they told somebody to go out and do it...Fox isn't trying to brainwash anybody, they're presenting a more Conservative angle on the news, unlike the other networks who keep shoving the Liberal perspective down our throats...

...last I heard, we Conservatives have a right to our opinions, and when we express them, it's not brainwashing any more than when liberals express theirs.

Now you want to censor me or have the government censor me, that's brainwashing!

I thought freedom of speech and the press applied to all people--guess that's another myth that the libs have managed to create.

...last I heard, we Conservatives have a right to our opinions, and when we express them, it's not brainwashing any more than when liberals express theirs.

You heard correctly --and I agree , speak you're mind. However we libs would appreciate if you'd actually base your opinions on the truth instead of Faux News's Bush and Rove pushed propaganda complete with "talking points" ...LOL and they have the nerve to call themselves journalists.

McClellan: Fox News Commentators Use The 'Talking Points' That The White House Sends Them»

On MSNBC's Hardball last night, host Chris Matthews asked former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan if he saw "FOX television as a tool" to get the White House's "message out" while he was in the Bush administration. "Certainly there were commentators and other, pundits at FOX News, that were useful to the White House," replied McClellan, adding that they were given "talking points."

Making a distinction between journalists like Brit Hume and commentators like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, McClellan admitted that "certainly" the White House used Fox News talking heads as "spokespeople" with "a script":

MATTHEWS: So, you wouldn't use Brit Hume to sell stuff for them, but you'd use some of the nighttime guys?

MCCLELLAN: Yeah, I would separate that out, and certainly I, you know, they'll say, that's because they agree with those views in the White House.

MATTHEWS: Well, they didn't need a script though, did they?

MCCLELLAN: No, well, probably not.

McClellan later told MSNBC's Keith Olbermann that "it was done frequently, especially on high-profile issues" and that Fox often gave the White House "its desired results." Current Press Secretary Dana Perino would only tell Olbermann, "I'm not aware of that."

Lucy says:

I thought freedom of speech and the press applied to all people--guess that's another myth that the libs have managed to create.

Nope Taling away freedom of speech is an idea the right wing nuts support whole heartedly.

December 15, 2003 issue
Source: The American Conservative

When Bush travels around the United States, the Secret Service visits the location ahead of time and orders local police to set up "free speech zones" or "protest zones" where people opposed to Bush policies (and sometimes sign-carrying supporters) are quarantined. These zones routinely succeed in keeping protesters out of presidential sight and outside the view of media covering the event.

When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, "The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us." The local police, at the Secret Service's behest, set up a "designated free-speech zone" on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush's speech. The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, though folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president's path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct; the police also confiscated his sign. Neel later commented, "As far as I'm concerned, the whole country is a free speech zone. If the Bush administration has its way, anyone who criticizes them will be out of sight and out of mind."

Free speech also does not apply to students anymore ...thanks to conservatives.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court ruled against a former high school student Monday in the "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" banner case -- a split decision that limits students' free speech rights.

Joseph Frederick was 18 when he unveiled the 14-foot paper sign on a public sidewalk outside his Juneau, Alaska, high school in 2002.

Principal Deborah Morse confiscated it and suspended Frederick. He sued, taking his case all the way to the nation's highest court.

You heard correctly --and I agree , speak you're mind. However we libs would appreciate if you'd actually base your opinions on the truth instead of Faux News's Bush and Rove pushed propaganda complete with "talking points" ...LOL and they have the nerve to call themselves journalists.

I guess you don't realize how hypocritical that sounds. I assume you're giving a free pass to all those liberal pundits like Olbermann, right? They have shows you agree with so they must be the truth, is that it?

"You heard correctly --and I agree , speak you're mind. However we libs would appreciate if you'd actually base your opinions on the truth instead of Faux News's Bush and Rove pushed propaganda complete with "talking points" ...LOL and they have the nerve to call themselves journalists."

And we conservatives would appreciate if every single one of the other media sources would base THEIR opinions on the truth, instead of deliberately slanting facts far to the left, forcing opinion every three sentences to instill deliberate misrepresentations of the facts. With Fox, they have their news, times when they simply give facts and leave it at that. Then they have their talk show hosts such as Rush, who have shows where the entire point is that they give opinion (I don't bother watching those). I haven't found another media source that even bothers with the time to just stick with the facts. Instead of talk show hosts and opinion pieces, the left leaning media PRETENDS to not have those opinion pieces, claiming to only be giving facts, while in reality giving nothing BUT opinion pieces with random pieces of partial information thrown in to loosely make it at least appear to me mildly credible. This is what WE would appreciate...report on facts, and then have your little opinion shows, such as the Conservative's have Rush, but when reporting opinion at least ADMIT that they are opinion articles and shows, and have at least ONE, just one, show or article each day that isn't horribly biased to the left. And all of these other media stations have the nerve to call THEIR talk show hosts journalists? They're all talk shows, not even news reports anymore, and then to see them accuse the conservatives of doing the same, pretending THEY aren't the biased ones, trying to pass laws that silence any opinion leaning to the right? Truly disgusting to see. At least Fox advertises Rush and the opinion shows as being nothing more than opinions, the left still won't admit that they don't have a single other media source that isn't opinionated to the left.

Providence -- that's great rhetoric about idea killing, but when people are exposed to a "news agency" like Fox that's supposed to report the unbiased truth, and instead Fox reports in a biased manner (as they DO!) -- then people get the wrong idea of reality. It's not about idea killing -- it's about brainwashing. You can't have a biased evaluation of an idea when the contexts are false but are presented as truth.
We're just pawns in the everlasting battle for the hearts and minds of men, and with the stakes so high, it's obvious why we're being lied to and losing our rights.

That may be true, Jon, but how do you counter it using censorship? Censorship simply validates the idea in those who espouse it by implying that those in power 'fear the truth.'
Also, those who hold the views will continue to do so, and spread those views underground, even after their spokesmen are gagged. Any way you slice it, you cannot kill an idea; the best you can do is allow it to be aired and, if invalid, let it collapse under its own weight. There will always be fringe extremists for whom reason means nothing.

As for being lied to and losing our rights: We're ALWAYS being lied to by somebody. People with agendas ALWAYS twist the truth to try to meet their ends. This is a fact of humanity. We truly lose our rights and freedoms when we try to suppress ideas. Censorship is a form of social oppression. Only in the free marketplace of ideas can we truly protect our freedoms.
If we succeed in legally suppressing one person or faction's ideas, we set a precedent for similar laws being used to suppress OUR ideas.
In journalism, this is a vicious tightrope. It's hard to report the news without at least some editorial bias entering in. Yes, there are many publications and broadcasters who are clearly pushing a specific agenda; this has existed since people first began reporting 'news' and writing 'history.'
For that reason alone, the free marketplace of ideas is essential.

And, yes, I was chilled by the very concept of the 'Patriot Act.' I was expecting the new 'Sedition Acts' any day.

Red-374368, They are no better or worse than Olbermann! I believe that they all have protection under the first amendment. By the way, your assessment of people is far off base. Just because you own firearms does not make you a "nut-job."

..but when reporting opinion at least ADMIT that they are opinion articles and shows, and have at least ONE, just one, show or article each day that isn't horribly biased to the left. And all of these other media stations have the nerve to call THEIR talk show hosts journalists? They're all talk shows, not even news reports anymore, and then to see them accuse the conservatives of doing the same, pretending THEY aren't the biased ones, trying to pass laws that silence any opinion leaning to the right? Truly disgusting to see. At least Fox advertises Rush and the opinion shows as being nothing more than opinions, the left still won't admit that they don't have a single other media source that isn't opinionated to the left.

O'Reilly tries to pass his show off as the "no spin zone"..exactly how is that admitting it's an opinion show?

Sure there are lefty talk shows...but attempting to actually pass off Fox News as an unbiased news source as fact is ridiculous . ALL other news sources besides Fox are lefty biased and "deliberately slanting facts to the left" is truly dishonest. But go ahead and keep hanging on to that sinking raft.

Fox continually says their news is fair and balanced while former White House press secretary Scott McLellan has said he sent them "talking points" which they were fine with because it was their opinion anyway. So much for "we report, you decide"...ANY story from Fox News on political issues is biased toward the right.

With Fox, they have their news, times when they simply give facts and leave it at that. ... I haven't found another media source that even bothers with the time to just stick with the facts. Instead of talk show hosts and opinion pieces, the left leaning media PRETENDS to not have those opinion pieces, claiming to only be giving facts, while in reality giving nothing BUT opinion pieces with random pieces of partial information thrown in to loosely make it at least appear to me mildly credible

Please link an article or give a credible (not O'Reilly) source that supports these statements.

I guess you don't realize how hypocritical that sounds. I assume you're giving a free pass to all those liberal pundits like Olbermann, right? They have shows you agree with so they must be the truth, is that it?

It's hypocritical to back up my comments on conservatives blocking the right to free speech?—you assumed wrong. I'm giving no one a free pass…if it's biased it's biased.. Funny thing though with conservatives is, it's ONLY the truth when they state your conservative opinion back to you…and it's only biased when it supports a libs view.

The truth is the truth no matter which side it supports. I like the truth
and will honestly consider all views. The truth has supported the "liberal" view on corporate welfare, the Iraq War, and offshore drilling, just to name a few. And the truth is the FACTS show that conservatives have attempted to block free speech.

I read from all different sources, but I especially like PBS, CBC, WSJ, and the BBC. I am not particularly fond of Olberman but he has made several great points over the years which he has backed up with documentation and interviews.

He might be from the post office for crying out loud!

Now that's funny...

Ditto....gone postal ROFL

Or an Obama man who didn't like this super delegate continuing to support Hillary. Libs always are paranoid and to quote the song "bet you think this songs about you--you're so vain etc." You have 90% of the media and complain that free speech allows other opinions 10% or less of the time???

Interesting cause for you to do some self introspection about how much freedom you are willing to allow others to think and speak as they like. Of course since the left is about controlling every aspect of our lives that would fit now wouldn't it--to silence all free thought!

Of course since the left is about controlling every aspect of our lives that would fit now wouldn't it--to silence all free thought!

Stop the partisan generalizing. I've seen both liberals and conservatives try to stifle free speech. I've also seen both liberals and conservatives champion free speech.

I'm a liberal who champions free speech; I suspect you are a conservative who champions free speech.

We both consider it a cornerstone of the constitutional republic.

Glorious,

Everybody in this country is blaming everybody else, pointing fingers at everybody except themselves for their financial situations. People in this country go out and by 10 mile a gallon pickups, $60,000.00 cars, homes with adjustable rate mortgages (ARM) and shop at high end stores. Then the price of gas goes through the roof and they can't afford to drive that 10 mile a gallon truck. Their house payment on adjustable rate mortgage triples at the end of 5 years because they didn't read the fine print on the contract that stated their payment would be xxx dollars for 5 years then triples at the end of 5 years. Because of the increase of the price of fuel, the price of groceries, household energy and anything else hauled by truck goes up. And because of the increase in their house payment and the other increases, they can't make their car payment. Then to top all this off, they are shopping Macy's, Neiman Marcus, and Bloomingdales instead of J.C.Penny, Bealls, and Walmart. Now, who made all these decisions and therefore, who is responsible for their own financial mess?

The economy is in a wreck because too many people over-extended themselves on credit and now they don't have the money to pay the fiddler who is now calling the tune. I live in a VERY modest house in a less than stellar neighborhood in a very small town, not because I can't afford better-believe me, I can-- but because I CHOOSE to be frugal and LIVE WITHIN MY MEANS. My bills are paid, I don't buy unless I can pay for it and I shop around before I plunk down the nickel for ANYTHING. People blame everybody else for their financial disasters, but "everybody else" didn't make the decision for them to buy on credit and spend foolishly.

And yes, the President isn't helping matters one bit, but we can vote a president into office and if he doesn't change things, we can vote him out again. That's the American way. GO VOTE! If you don't go vote, you don't have a gripe!

How was it Tolstoy put it:

"Everyone wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves."

Red, we have had a Democratic majority in both houses for two years! You need to evaluate what they have or have not done too!

texas momma gator, there's are a lot more disgusted republican's who're for Obama than Clinton gaglings who're against him. I've been a republican 42 years, but I wouldn't vote republican again if my wife and kids were the only ones on their ballot. Not that I do not love or trust them...its the republican machinery that Rubber stamped Bush's agenda and has this nation with a 200 billion dollar a year INTEREST payment to China....a 600 Trillion dollar debt my heirs have to worry about, the War of Lies, run aways inflation and gas prices...on and on.

J. Debartolo,

Based on your post, we are VERY close in age. May I make a suggestion? In all the years that I have been going to the polls(and I see you and I have been going to the polls close to the same amount), I NEVER vote for a candidate based on the party which they belong to. I watch and listen VERY CAREFULLY and cast my vote based on the issues, how the candidate addresses the issues, and the overall impact of the candidates stand on the issues on the American people. Just a suggestion.

With love and respect, Gray Headed Granny, I've been one of those die hard Republicans all my life and supported them without question...until God moved on me, convinced my heart and showed me I WAS out of HIS will!

Don't get me wrong, the RNP have saved me lots of money with tax breaks, but my employees have taken up the slack and I see them hurting...really, really bad. Young America's dying needless in a War of Lies...our economy in the toilet. Now its beginning to effect my pocketbook and my children's futures. Rest assured, Gray Headed Granny, I'm never too old to learn. Thanks for the suggestion! I'm now a registered Independent who's on my hands and knees before God for guidance regarding this election. My Spirit Man tells my Heart to, "Be ye separate...come out from among them" It tells me to be leery of " Wolves in Sheep's clothing" and "not to condemn lies is to condone them".

Be Blessed, Gray Headed Granny!

J. Debartolo said:

"I'm now a registered Independent who's on my hands and knees before God for guidance regarding this election."

I may not agree with your conclusions, but I definitely agree with your method.

J. Debartolo,

I am quoting you, "A registered Independent who's on my hands and knees before God". You are going about it in absolutely the right way. Just keep on praying and be sure you listen for that still, small, voice. It's the Holy Spirit coming to guide your way. Believe me, he's saved my gray headed butt many a time. Keep up the good workand keep on praying--it will get you through this crisis!

Can you document any of these shootings carried out by a "liberal"? I don't think you can.
God knows there has been plenty of provocation.

If Americans knew what it cost to have a representative in congress, there would be a revolution tomorrow. Their salaries are reasonable, but then the perks kick in.

Free medical care for entire family
Per Diem- usually amounts to more than salary
Clothing allowance
Travel
Private cars
Staffs in many separate offices ( Gordon Smith maintains six offices)
Cars and office equipment for each of these offices. ( automobiles updated every 2 years )
Many employees get to keep these cars after they leave office.
Personnel ( salaries and benefits for all the employees for each office).
Personal credit cards for the representative and all staff members ( for expenses)
Insurance for all the vehicles and locations
Insurance for all the employees
Retirement accounts for all these people.

This is just a partial list. Your tax dollars at work.
This is why politicians pay millions ( raised from the public ) to get a job that only pays
about a hundred grand a year.

Bless You, I believed we don't need to go through four or eight years of lies and deceit. We as Americans are suffering through hard times. How disgusting it has been to watch everything Bush has done to us at home and abroad. When you have 10 republicans not attending the R.N.C that tells you, thier not happy with the nominee or the president. It also makes you take notice how wrong the republicans were on the war in Iraq, and economics. That republicans are running to the democratic party. If McCain is in office it's going to be more of the same, but we'll have a bigger foreign policy mess. McCain is to hot headed to lead because he believes in striking out our enemies first. When our children fights we ask them why did you hit one another, and ask them if it was better way they could have handle it. We let them stew for a while to come up with a better course of action. When McCain makes a statement that we are all Georgians when making a speech addressing Russia, and the president of Georgia think all Americans we'll back him in with military back-up. John McCain makes to many mistake, like today when he say would shouldn't,t invade a sovereign nation. What did he think Iraq invited us? Isn't it a double standard since he,s a friend of Georgia president, and one of his advisor who's a lobbyist has ties to Georgia and its oil. Why is he going all out out to defend them? Senator Gordon Smith has even left McCain's party, that's telling us something. That's why they are bringing Karl Rove playbook the swift vote into play.

Sorry, not enough whales. They'll probably be on the endangered list soon...from all that offshore drilling

I wonder if George Soros pulled all the money his hedge fund had in oil futures before the price started down. He was the number two investor in futures,, I bet he did.

The Democratic poster boy hard at work, making money off of the average investor. Ha! Ha! Think ENRON

Red 374368--Post #36

You are right about the oil shortage. I don't know how old you are, but I remember quite well the alleged oil shortage of the 70's. During that oil shortage, there were long lines at the stations, you could only buy a limited number of gallons at one time, and you could only buy fuel every other day, based on the last numbers of the license plate on your car. With this oil shortage, you can roll right up to the pump upon arriving at the station, you can buy fuel any and every day you want to, and you can buy all the fuel you can afford to pay for. Interesting little difference, right?

Gwatney?

It's a glaring difference. Since our "oil shortage" began, I have never once had a problem filling up. Never! Like you said, any gas station, any time. But the Drill, Drill, Drill mantra is working. People have been programmed over the last eight years to fear everything so they'll buy into anything. Just a little conservation would do the trick...

A lot can't be drilled because of regulations or is not close enough to pipelines to be practical at this time. Some is just awaiting permitting. With oil at the price it is these companies have no logical reason for holding out.

There are 2 trillion barrels of oil from shale in the four corners area in AZ,, CO,, UTAH, and N. Mex... I understand it's a bit more expensive to get but the cost problem was an issue when gas was selling for 60 cents a gallon. I would guess that $4.00 would make it
profitable now. Sierra club is keeping that from happening. Are they liberals??

AC

ENRON loophole as in GRAMM

"They have 60+ million acres of leased land waiting to be drilled. Why don't they go ahead and start there. But no, they want more offshore waters. Did you notice how quick the price of gas dropped when people started using less?"

Why don't they? Hmm, the lack of oil on that land I'd say is a fairly big reason, along with the difficult soil. Oh, and for the record, people have actually INCREASED the amount of gas used, despite all the warnings Americans STILL increased consumption this year...and yet gas still dropped. Now when did this happen? As soon as the debate over drilling offshore became a viable and most likely occurring plan, it dropped immediately. Even though consumption increased, price still dropped.
However, then you need to ALSO look at overseas consumption, as the US only uses approximately 3% of the oil sold throughout the world, meaning that we barely contribute with the price of barrel costs, and our variances at home are also caused by land and property taxes, insurance rates, employee salaries, business taxes, etc. that the all privately owned gas stations must pay. Our push for offshore drilling most assuredly helped lower costs some, but with China reducing its demand by over 20% due to the new laws only allowing people to drive every other day of the week, and China's average demand being 500 times greater than that of the US, they created the GREATEST reduction in barrel costs.
The leased land can only be minimally drilled, US consumption has increased (especially as ethanol percentages in fuel have increased, as it requires THREE gallons of oil just to create one gallon of inefficient ethanol), price dropped as soon as offshore drilling became a certainty, and the price dropped more as soon as China's demand lowered by almost more than the entire US consumption rate. Yeah, don't see oil corporation actions that have caused this, nor Democratic policy proposals.

chuck,

Thank you for the voice of reason. I'm an Obama supporter and a moderate liberal, but even I don't want to blame Republicans for an act of violence. Look, for the same reason that liberals say you can't blame TV wrestling when some kid body slams his little sister and breaks her neck, you can't blame Republicans when some nutjob goes off the deep end and shoots a Democrat. At the end of the day, this man is responsible for his actions, not the GOP.

Our prayers are with Mr. Gwatney and his family.

Agreed,

I may not side with his politics but that does not negate the fact that he is most likely a reasonable human being who didn't deserve in a million years this happening. Just because people disagree, doesn't necessarily make them evil. I think I would know as a conservative who leans mostly republican dating a very liberal girl.

There are crazy people, and there are normal people and I hate to break it to some people on this board, they exist in both parties at every level, from grassroots to party leaders. I think its a shame many people came to this board simply to use it as another means of railing against people who oppose their viewpoints for no logical reason whatsoever.

Look at that bloated pig Ted Kennedy, & Marion Berry, John Edwards, John Kerry, Spitzer,
and a bus load of others from both parties. One term and you are out. The Government was not created to be 50 year career. Do your bit and get back to your real job.

Dan

Could add McCain to that list -

You can call me Ray,

Thank you! All these commenters should wait until the facts are in evidence before passing judgement on who or what they think might be behind this shooting.

Since his name is Tim Johnson, I'm gonna guess that he is white and male.

Color makes no difference! This is a terrible thing that has happened and first of all, we need to be praying for both families, the victims family and the shooters family. Then we need to wait on the facts.